| From | Message |
Viper
GenIII
 
11/29/2001
04:05:01
|
 Subject: RE: gun control
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Message:
Python you left out banning baseball bats,a crude yet effective weapon.Long live the Loiusville slugger!!!!!!!!!!!
2000 Quad,4x4,32x11.50s,3.92,4.7 Intense Blue
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fot80
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
06:09:22
| RE: gun control
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Message:
tiggerdak, how about the fact that a handgun in the household is 12 times more likely to kill a family member than an assailant, robber, or intruder? I'm not anti-gun, but there should be some simple things like registration when buying new firearms? You do register a new vehicle.
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
10:50:38
| RE: gun control (fot80)
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Message:
.........and even though vehicles are licensed and registered, people still die in auto accidents.
It appears then that licensing and registration DO not work. However, common sense does. Problem is, we have a shortage of commmon sense in this country.
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MikeC
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
11:11:43
|  RE: gun control
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Every law that forces you to register, buy used, put a lock on, limit capacity, etc. etc. has already infringed our rights and is un-constitutional.
We've already been bent over folks. Which one will be the straw that breaks the camel's back?
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Knobbyman
GenIII
11/29/2001
11:21:26
| RE: gun control
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I think there are plenty of rules & regulations on firearms in this country but I also think that people that own firearms should know EVERYTHING about them before they purchase there own. I could take apart my dads Browning 7-08 A-Bolt clean and lube it correctly put it all back together sight it in and it would be a awesome gun.. I did that before every hunting season for the last 3 years. I just now got my Ruger 22-250 MKII. I still don't own a handgun although I have a concealed carry license and can take apart and put my dads 1911 back together blind folded *trust me someone challenged me a few times*
It's all about training. How many times have you seen people say "stupid computer" the computer isn't the stupid thing they don't think... It's the user not knowing how to use it that's stupid.
'01 Graphite QC 4x4
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
12:05:51
| RE: gun control
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How would registering a firearm prevent deaths? Should alcohol drinkers be registered? They cause lots more damage from their drunk driving than anyone else. Knobbyman has a good point. Just because something is registered doesnt mean anything. The problems is people who have a desire to kill people will use whatever means they can. A gun. car. knife. bomb. rope. poison. whatever. Like I've said before, I own weapons for my hunting and peace of mind. Besides, I've heard that violent crimes are down in this country over the past 10 years or so. The reasons why I'm not sure.
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Hawkeye
*GenIII*
11/29/2001
15:24:02
| RE: gun control
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Car ownership and driving is a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT. BIG difference. The numbers you state about having a gun in the house are completely bogus. They have been proven wrong a hlaf dozen times over. If guns are so dangerous, then I issue this challenge. I will meet anyone anytime and we will take one of mine, lay it on the table pointing directly at me, and we will sit there until it shoots me or anyone else in the room. And YES it will be loaded, mine all are. Always. When that gun shoots me or anyone else in the room, then I will personally destroy every one of them that I own and will join the first gun control group I can find as a life member. Since my guns have protected me and my wife at least 4 times, including just today as a matter of fact, I guess that means we are due to get shot pretty soon if I really am 12 times more likely to be harmed by them than a criminal.
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4.7 3.55 LSD
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Steve L
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
15:38:32
| RE: gun control
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Message:
Thank you Hawkeye. I have been using that analogy for years. When will people take responsibility for their actions.
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
16:26:11
| HAWK has it
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Message:
hawk,its all about CONTROL period. Liberals want us to be dependent on govt for everything...look how the father has been replaced by a govt check. The only way to keep that check coming each month is to vote for the clowns in washington and keep sending them back there so they can pass more welfare crap etc etc etc.
Gun control disarms the population which means the general population (except for the Rose Odonnels and other hollywood elite) cannot defend itself and thus has to rely on the police. What takes place next inevitably is a "selective" proteciton by the police (who are hired and fired buy the govt to begin with). The designated elites get protection while the less desireable masses are left to fend for themselves. Thus the general population is emasculated and at the mercy of the criminal groups (recall our justice system is not much more than a revolving door)and the police system which selectively chooses whom it protects. You then become a ward of the state without even knowing it, all under the innocent "gun registration" guise.
Interesting note in USA today yesterday about how Mccain wants to close the "gun show loophole" cause the terrorits got their "automatic assault weapons" at gun shows and shipping them all over the world to foster the growth of terrorism.
uhhh he mr mccain, you better study up on history, the general population has not been allowed to own automatice machine guns since the 1935 gun control act. And I have yet to attend a gun show where I saw 'arabs' buying large qtys of automatice weapons and ammuniton.
Just goes to show you what liberals will do to advance their cause. Not once did they state that the planes were hijacked using BOX CUTTERS AND KNIVES. Nor did they suggest box cutter registration or knife registration.
Remember, its all about control, nothing more nothing less.
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fot80
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
06:15:27
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
registration can help solve crimes faster that were done with a gun. You'd know who has a gun and what type. And it's not a liberal conspiracy to have everyone be dependent on the gov't. That's further from the truth. There is no "liberal conspiracy" You guys say no gun control, but would u want a menatally ill person or ex-con to have possession of one? It is a right and I'm not going to argue otherwise, but shouldn't you prove that you are responsible enough for that right, especially when other people's lives are as stake? The numbers i state about having a gun in the house are not bogus. On average, handguns hurt households more than they help. It's just historically true. Maybe you're responsible, but they're many MANY irresponsible individuals as well. As for registration....with new innovations in technology more murders and crimes involving guns can be solved using tracing technologies. Gunman, what liberal cause? I thought mccain was a republican...? Oh, an what welfare crap? Welfare's been declining every year since '96 and it too with social security will soon be gone. Why make this into a liberal vs. conservative theme? It's a gun theme. I'm not trying to support a liberal cause, just trying to defend the liberal stance from misconceptions and exaggerations. Oh, btw, did u know Rush Limbaugh collected unemployment during the 80s? lol Hawkeye, where the hell do you live? I'd move out from there quickly. 4 times is 4 times too many.
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Dr Q
DakotaEnthusiast
12/04/2001
08:03:13
|  RE: gun control
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Message:
Voting is a right, but you still gotta register.
Fanning the flames,
Dr Q
Dr.Q
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Knobbyman
GenIII
12/04/2001
09:04:26
| RE: gun control
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I have a pocket knife.. Should I register that also?.. What about my hunting knife. Or maybe the Musket over the fireplace? GAH!! and watch out for the swords.. Those are dangerous. Uho.. I'd better not mention all the fertilizer in my garage.
Also the reason you have to register to vote is so you can’t vote more then once.
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Dr Q
DakotaEnthusiast
12/04/2001
09:16:34
| RE: gun control
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Message:
Unless you're from Chicago.
Dr.Q
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Hawkeye
*GenIII*
12/04/2001
10:52:30
| RE: gun control
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Message:
quote "If guns are so dangerous, then I issue this challenge. I will meet anyone anytime and we will take one of mine, lay it on the table pointing directly at me, and we will sit there until it shoots me or anyone else in the room. And YES it will be loaded, mine all are. Always. When that gun shoots me or anyone else in the room, then I will personally destroy every one of them that I own and will join the first gun control group I can find as a life member."
No takers yet.
quote "People dont need guns to kill. They will use whatever means they want to. They use knives, screwdivers, crowbars, baseball bats, rocks, cars, even their bare hands."
Just had to throw back out a couple of things that I have posted on this thread before that still keep getting avoided. Thre are more, but no point in reposting them all.
What makes you think that registration will help solve crimes? Last time I checked, criminal were the ones committing crimes. Criminals, by definition, dont follow the law. Sorry to disappoint you but criminals arent going to register their guns. It is already against the law for mentally-ill people and ex-cons to posses firearms. On average handguns hurt households more than they help? Historically true? How about irresponsible parents hurt households. How about kids having kids hurts households. How about people taking responsibility for there own actions or lack thereof. Tracing technologies??
Irresponsible individuals, hmmm. Like drunk drivers? Cars are registered. More people killed by drunk drivers every year than firearms. I believe that in the studies you are refering to that the criteria they used is not quite right. Children are more likely to be hurt by a handgun they say. Did you know that in their studies they considered children to be anyone 18 and under? That included suicides, 18 yr olds commiting crimes with guns, gang related shootings, etc. They take those number and then use them to try and make you beleive that having a gun in your home is somehow going to instantly bring harm to your child. Let me post this one more time and see if anyone has a reply.
If guns are so dangerous, then I issue this challenge. I will meet anyone anytime and we will take one of mine, lay it on the table pointing directly at me, and we will sit there until it shoots me or anyone else in the room. And YES it will be loaded, mine all are. Always. When that gun shoots me or anyone else in the room, then I will personally destroy every one of them that I own and will join the first gun control group I can find as a life member.
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
10:57:20
| RE: gun control
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Message:
Original post never made it maybe it got deleted? My question is why does the government need to know how many and what kinds of guns I own? Registration does NOTHING to prevent crime. It is a tool however which can and will more than likely be used by the government as a means to implement confiscation of firearms. Why else would the government need to know this information? Ok so they trace a gun back to John Q public who originally owned it but somehow it got stolen or sold to somebody and then it got stolen where in this link do we find out WHO committed the criime?
WHy isn't there more stories of law abiding citizens stopping or preventing crimes in the press? Because it does not make for a sensationalist story thats why. It also makes their argument for more gun control look pretty silly (which it is to begin with) If the revolving door justice system put away the criminals like they should, maybe hawkeye would not have had "4" instances where he needed to use his gun.
Cars are registered (and HUGE moneymaker for state gov'ts) yet there are over 40,000 deaths per year related to auto accidents. SOme of those accidents involve alcohol.
Wait!!!!!!!!!! Cars are registered right?
Wait!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't u have to be 21 to buy alcohol??????
WAIT!!!!!!!!! Why do we still have 40,000 deaths per year related to auto accidents????? Perhaps we should all pay a fee and take an alcohol consumption safety course?????
Oh,I almost forgot, isn't the LAW in all states that you must be LICENSED to drive or otherwise operate a motor vehicle?????
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
11:01:52
| HAWKS CHALLENGE
IP: Logged
Message:
Hawk, you'll get no challenge because no one has yet to make an inantimate object instanly pick itself up and fire at another person.
In other words, it takes in individual person to do that.
That is why no one answered your challenge.
Liberals don't like to use personal responsibility in their dialog.
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Hawkeye
*GenIII*
12/04/2001
11:06:00
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Sorry, forgot to answer your last question. Jacksonville, FL. I used to work for the Sheriffs office. Building is in downtown. Worked 3 to 11 shift mostly. Had to travel through some pretty bad parts of town on the way home at around 11:30, 12:00 EVERY night for a few years. Twice I had someone try to carjack me. Once, some individuals approached me at an ATM after work, didnt pull my gun but they got the message that I was armed and was not prey for them. The last instance happened to my wife this past Thurs. and Fri. as a psycho that used to somewhat stalk her a few years ago showed up at her work, trying to bring her flowers, starting a fight, etc., and was armed (illegally) the second time.
I bet that if you went into a downtown area of a major city every night for a few years you might run into a problem once or twice as well.
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33x12.50 Pro Comp X-T's
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Hawkeye
*GenIII*
12/04/2001
11:15:15
| RE: gun control
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Message:
Gunman, you sir, have just surpassed Albert Einstein.
I know thats why no one commented. I admit it was a loaded point. So now that we have it out on the table, it seems as though in EVERY situation, guns, drinking, driving, WHATEVER, that there is ALWAYS a person behind it. You cannot, and never will, be able to prevent crimes or trajedies, by going after inanimate objects or tools. You have to go after the INDIVIDUAL persons and hold each one responsible for their actions. You can pass all the laws you want to but a criminal already breaking the law is not going to suddenly start obeying a new one.
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33x12.50 Pro Comp X-T's
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
11:43:58
| Exactly.........RESPONSIBILITY
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Thanks to 30+ years of "I'm ok you're ok" we have now a society which places little, if any, regard for human life and personal responsibiliity.
We have managed to replace a father with a check, insist that individual screw ups are the fault of society, never the individual, and pretty much convinced a large group of people that the government is the solution to what ails them.
That's all fine and dandy, however, to keep all those programs going eats up approx 41% of my paycheck. For the mathematically challenged, this means I keep 59 cents out of every dollar I make and the gov't gets 41 cents.
Ok, we all have to pay our way. I agree with that wholeheartedly.
However, given the fact we have spent 3.5 trillion dollars on welfare, support, AFDC, WIC, and other alphabet soup programs since the 1960's, I think its fair to ask "How much more do we need to spend here?"
What this has to do with guns is the fact that replacing personal responsibility with a govt solution has taken us to a new low.
BUrn yourself with coffee, sue Mcdonalds.
Fly your two passenger plane in a thunderstorm and crash, sue the plane maker.
Eat too much and get fat, sue the food companies.
Person gets killed by a gun, sue the gun manufacturer.
Get the point? In other words, its not my fault!!!
I can't help it I'm in prison for life because of armed robbery, its cause mommy and daddy didn't give me enough attention as a child.
Its not my fault I rape and kill, its the horror movies I used to watch as a kid.
I can't help it I sit on my a$$ and collect welfare,I can't work because the politicians said so and I need other hardworking americans to support me.
I can't help it I have five kids each one by a differnet man, I need lovin and I never had enough of that as a child so these kids are necessary to make me feel loved. Oh, by the way, all you who work, thanks for working and making sure I get my monthly check. How much will my increase be if I pop out another kid?
What it all boils down to is dependency. Liberals want the rest of us to be dependent on the government which in turn keeps them in power and in a postion to control.
Gun control (and eventually confiscation) is a step towards that ultimate goal.
Just look at Candad, england, and AUstralia for examples. And it all started with a leetle ole gun licensing/registration program.
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Dr Q
DakotaEnthusiast
12/04/2001
14:44:19
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
You got your numbers all wrong. The great majority of the budget goes to maintaining the debt and defence. Education and welfare programs make up about 2% of the budget. If you were to include social security/medicare in the mix that would be a differant story all together. But most of that money doesn't go to grandma. It goes to big stinkin' hospital systems and pharmaceutical corporations that are charging $24.50 for a pill that costs $.25 in Mexico and $.12 cents to make. A big hunk of the social security budget and American health industry goes to keeping people over 65 alive. That money also pays my salary so I get $34k for doin' $150k of work. I say lets kill off all people over 65. it would balance the budget and I'd get some sleep at night. NO MORE GOMERS! NO MORE GOMERS!
Your pal,
Dr Q
Dr.Q
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Knobbyman
GenIII
12/04/2001
14:47:47
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Q .. will you buy me ammo.. I'm going to go along w/ you and use my GAH!! legal & registered gun to help you sleep @ night.
*what's this I can use a gun that's legal to shoot people OH NO*
'01 Graphite QC 4x4
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
14:49:20
| budget
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Welfare and Entitlements make up the majority of the budget.
Interest is a chunk too, it got there by Uncle Sam borrowing all that $$$$$$ to fund midnight basketball, WIC, and "another increase for another kid" welfare.
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
15:01:31
| GREAT IDEA KIDS!
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Message:
I was sitting here thinking and all of a sudden WHAM!
It hit me.
The Gun Control crowd thinks gun registration would solve crime and keep "poor kids from getting killed"
Well I want to entertain some ideas on this.
Since terrorism has caused more deaths in recent weeks than my guns, I want to propose that all terrorist organizations be REQUIRED to register with our government. That way whenever there is a bombing or other form of mass killing, it will be MUCH easier to track down those responsible and see that justice is served.
I was thinking a "terrorist license" starting with a $10,000 fee (like Chucky Schumner once proposes to register my guns)would be good for starters.
Each terrorist would be required to keep their "weapons" (this includes box cutters, knives, and anthrax) under lock and key. Each terrorist would pay a "Weapons Tax" of $1,000 for each weapon they have (from DAniel Patrick Monihayn some years back)
Each terrorist would attend a "terrorist training camp" to demonstrate the safe courteous processes of practicing terrorism. Fees to be determined.
For those terrorists which chose to live in caves thus making it very difficult for our armed forces to find them, a "Cave Entitlement Tax" of $500 per cave. Each Caveowner or cavedweller would have to pay a "Occupancy Fee" which is on top of the previous tax...agian this fee si to be determined.
Finally, we the people should have the right to sue terrorists for harm done and of course for all the carnage they cause and increased health care expenses.
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Dr Q
DakotaEnthusiast
12/04/2001
17:30:15
| RE: gun control
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Message:
Gunman I really don't know where you got your numbers. But number's out of W's own office say's that 20% of the National Budget goes to intrest 18% to the Dept. of Defense. 3.7% of the National budget goes to Temparrary Aid to Needy Families(welfare), Aid to the aged blind and disableled, foodstamps and WIC School slunches, other social programs-COMBINED! With approx 1.8% for education. So its not the midnight basket ball that we're going to pay intrest on for the next 200 years, its all them polaris submarines and trident missles and bombers that made Northrup, Douglas, and Morton Thiokol multi-multi billion dollar corporations during the Reagan years. And were never used-the emperor wheres no clothe. Here's a chart
http://www.kowaldesign.com/budget/percentages.html While I salute your passionate patriotism, you have a responsibility to question those in power. Unfortunatly, your patriotism is being abused to line the pockets of defense contractors.
Dr.Q
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
17:48:26
| RE: gun control
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Message:
I sure am G-L-A-D we have a defense today, arent you Q?
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
17:58:48
| RE: gun control
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Message:
Defense contractors thank god we still have em!
Hate to have to rely on other countries for our hardware to defend ourselves...uh oh....maybe we should subordinate national defense to the UN? Kinda like the resolution the UN passed (and tried to make binding on the US)regarding those "black Market guns"?
Besides, all those people working at defense contractors contribute $$$ to the national economy.
What do welfare abusers contribute? Notice I said ABUSERS, not users.
I learned as a student teacher there are two classes of people
1. I can't
2. I won't
I am referring to the I WONT group.
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Dr Q
DakotaEnthusiast
12/04/2001
19:50:19
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
You betcha I'm glad about our military. But that's not really the point I was trying to make. I got my student loan statement and its $127K !! Now I'm a vet (Marines) and I went to public, in state schools, even after my vet benefits and grants, I'm in hock upto my as$. I just think that this country can do better and must do better. I worked as a caseworker doling out food stamps and welfare I had always thought it a stupid system. If there was pulic schools going from daycare to college. we'd have better citizens, ultimatly less dependance. Best of all there would be No excuses! I mean during my third year of medical school I had to go to the Catholic Charities for groceries. I was approved for a Govt' loan but it wasn't funded. So for a month and a half no chow. Just think for the price of one trident sub-no tuition!
Dr.Q
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
12/08/2001
20:55:09
| How bout it, terrorist registration?
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Message:
Anyone have a comment on previous post?
I mean we register everything else and liberals want us to register guns, might as well include terrorists right?
How about offering license to practice terrorism too? This way, only qualified individuals can practice it!
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Hawkeye
*GenIII*
12/08/2001
20:59:59
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
I would say I agree but I bet you guys already knew that didnt you.......:-)
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
12/13/2001
21:14:34
| terrorist control
IP: Logged
Message:
I was sitting here thinking and all of a sudden WHAM!
It hit me.
The Gun Control crowd thinks gun registration would solve crime and keep "poor kids from getting killed"
Well I want to entertain some ideas on this.
Since terrorism has caused more deaths in recent weeks than my guns, I want to propose that all terrorist organizations be REQUIRED to register with our government. That way whenever there is a bombing or other form of mass killing, it will be MUCH easier to track down those responsible and see that justice is served.
I was thinking a "terrorist license" starting with a $10,000 fee (like Chucky Schumner once proposes to register my guns)would be good for starters.
Each terrorist would be required to keep their "weapons" (this includes box cutters, knives, and anthrax) under lock and key. Each terrorist would pay a "Weapons Tax" of $1,000 for each weapon they have (from DAniel Patrick Monihayn some years back)
Each terrorist would attend a "terrorist training camp" to demonstrate the safe courteous processes of practicing terrorism. Fees to be determined.
For those terrorists which chose to live in caves thus making it very difficult for our armed forces to find them, a "Cave Entitlement Tax" of $500 per cave. Each Caveowner or cavedweller would have to pay a "Occupancy Fee" which is on top of the previous tax...agian this fee si to be determined.
Finally, we the people should have the right to sue terrorists for harm done and of course for all the carnage they cause and increased health care expenses.
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
12/18/2001
08:07:05
| RE: gun control
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Message:
God, Guns, and Guts made america!
LEts keep all three!
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Dr Q
DakotaEnthusiast
12/18/2001
11:39:34
| RE: gun control
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Message:
Yada yada yada...cold dead fingers.....yada yada...guns don't kill people..yada yada Gunman we get it you like guns, no you LOVE guns GOOD FOR YOU!
Dr.Q
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
12/18/2001
13:22:44
| RE: gun control
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Message:
yes, you are correct.
Guess that makes me a radical or worse, a right wing meanine!
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Dr Q
DakotaEnthusiast
12/18/2001
14:16:30
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
No, just repetative.
Dr.Q
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
12/18/2001
18:54:16
| RE: gun control
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Message:
Uh huh, necessary to be repetitive so the anti gunners get the gist and stop trying to casterate one of our bill of rights.
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Chris W
Dodge Dakota
12/19/2001
19:49:09
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
hahahahaha,, are you trying to spell castrate?
Just picking on you. :-]
Anyway, I think you can relax a little.
-At least as long as Dubya is in office-
---Politicians love unarmed peasants---
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
12/19/2001
21:57:49
| OOOPS!!!!!!
IP: Logged
Message:
Spell chick was turned uff!
haw haw haw
Long live Gee Double Yuh
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fot80
Dodge Dakota
12/24/2001
15:54:16
|  RE: gun control
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Message:
I don't understand why registration is such a big deal. You still get your gun. It's just registered now.
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
12/24/2001
22:36:33
| RE: gun control
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....and what the govt giveth, the govt can taketh away.
Just say NO to gun registration. Why in the world does the govt need to know what guns I have?
How does it PREVENT crime?
ANswer: It doesn't
Real reason.....when the govt knows who has what kind and how many guns, it makes it easier to install a confiscation scheme.
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GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
12/30/2001
17:46:05
| RE: gun control
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Message:
Everyone still locked and loaded?
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